29 January 1969
AM X-37-40
The children are better and better!... The NEW children are truly remarkable. Today I saw [name's] child, she's two, I think, but she is like the children of six or seven used to be before. Wide awake, intelligent... . It's curious:
What do you have to say?
(long silence)
I have a vague impression I had something to tell you, but I don't know what....
(Then Mother shows a brochure =1, on education in Auroville.)
Actually, it's not bad.
I don't know if it's wrong, but no problem interests me any more. I don't ask any questions at all any more. The speculative mind no longer interests me.
Oh, maybe I'm responsible!... Because for me it's the same as gossip.
Nothing interests me any more, except something else that I'm waiting for.
Something which has to come, yes, that's it.
So all the rest... They pass books along to me, they pass me letters, it doesn't interest me.
That's it.
So she [the author of the brochure] wants to see me.
All that seems so futile!
Yes, it's something ELSE.
Page-95
Yes.
Something COMPLETELY OTHER...
Yes.
...which has to come.
That's it.
So all these current improvements are not interesting, I find.
That's it. And the whole day, from morning till evening, people bother me with stories like that (Mother points to the brochure).
And she wants to see me.
Do you want me to read the brochure and tell you about it?
No, I read it (I didn't read it, I heard it): it's words. It's not bad, but it's just words.
Except, she is taking it seriously: it is "education in Auroville".
But I'm so conscious that it's the mind which is so happy with itself and continuing to delight in itself, so... And if you want them to come out of that, they don't understand anything any more. So there's nothing to do but let them go on. But I don't see why one should be bothered to read their stories.
No, really, the mental life seems... to go round in circles.
There's a mixture!... (an Ashramite read it to me last evening). All of a sudden there's a sentence from Sri Aurobindo followed by another sentence by [the author of the brochure], then something by me comes in, and suddenly one by [the librarian] (he's become a big guru).
They've asked me for some articles - not those, some others.
I said, "What do you want me to say!" Nothing comes, it doesn't interest me.
Oh, they've asked you!
But according to the news drifting in from Europe, you get the
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impression of an enormous balloon being more and more blown up (economically, financially, mechanically), and that everything is going to burst — it has to burst... into something else. And the Mind is part of this balloon.
Yes, yes, the Mind seems to have been inflated to the utmost, ready to burst. That's exactly it.
I was wondering: is the Mind going to have to fail completely before people understand?... If it's going to burst with a zero at the end?
Then people are always asking me for "messages" (not articles because I don't write them any more), but [the author of the brochure] wants me to see her and she wants to take "notes" of what I will say. But I know very well that everything I say will be completely distorted.
One would like to be able to... be quiet for a while.
And they take it all so seriously! They believe it's so terribly important....
The only answer I ever feel like giving to all these people is: SOMETHING ELSE... SOMETHING ELSE...
Yes, that's it.
I have the impression there's nothing else one can answer.
(Mother goes into a long contemplation. When she comes out, she speaks the next three sentences in English.)
I could remain hours like this.
A great Peace has come down. Did you feel that?
(During the meditation, [an Ashramite] noticed that Mother opened her eyes for a moment, and they were absolutely, she said, Sri Aurobindo's eyes.)
Yes.
And then it becomes wide-wide-wide...
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(silence)
I find it very comfortable!
(The disciple puts his forehead on Mother's knees, then Mother looks at him for a long time)
These are like BIG eyes, looking.. (gesture of cm), I have the impression of BIG eyes, looking.. ..
AM X-53-56,60
With regard to illnesses, yesterday [the architect] asked me some questions so he could answer people, and he asked me if it was necessary to organize, etc. And so it came, but in such an imperative way; I answered him that organization is discipline in action, and that discipline is absolutely indispensable to life; I said the entire functioning of the body is a discipline, and if there is even one part that doesn't want to follow the discipline — due to revolt or incapacity or... whatever reason — if it stops following the discipline, you fall sick.
It came so clearly that I said it.
That paper is with [the architect], I asked him to give it to me. I have another one here which I'm going to show you in a little while.
But what is curious is that the experience came BEFORE I got his question, as always. In the morning I had that experience, I was looking... looking at the functioning of the body and I thought: what a MARVELLOUS discipline! And each thing does its work regularly. And naturally, when there is a bad will or a whim or some sort of incapacity, for whatever reason, and one part stops playing its role on cue, poff! you get sick.
That will be for some other time.
Afterwards, there comes "A Propos" and then "Notes on the Way". Sweet Mother, I had wondered if, for February 21st, we couldn't play the tape recordings of what you said, for example, about the descent of the superman consciousness?
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Do you think that...
Yes, at the Playground they always play your old conversations.
Do you think it might be useful?
I think it obviously has much more force than...
Than the written word.
From a personal standpoint, what disturbs me is that several times I ask some questions, so my voice will be there.
That's okay! (Mother laughs)
Yes, but anyway.. I know it would please people. Hearing you say it, immediately is more...
Who decides that? [Senior Ashramite]?
Oh, no, no, no! No one decides! It's up to you to say whether it suits you.
They have never asked me...
No, no, except for the "Aphorisms", they've never used any of your recent conversations, never.
Perhaps you could ask [senior Ashramite] what he thinks about it. [In fact, nothing came of it.]
(The disciple shows the rest of the proofs)
Good, it's all right.
Shouldn't it be signed?
I never write.
Look, come here.
If you could remove all this (a pile of papers from which Mother extracts a note). I have a paper here... ah!... there it is. It's really awful, I'm warning you, it's a ridiculous
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caricature of what I said.
It's noted down, or what?
I spoke and [name] wrote it down from memory, so you understand, the important word is gone, it's come down from...
(The disciple reading:) "In Auroville, people will not earn money; people will not work in order to earn money..."
It's already come down so much (gesture on the floor).
Then: "If someone sets up a company, the profits or the products of that company will go to the city..."
It's not like that — it's not like that! No, that's useless.
"...Each one will have to work for the collectivity according to his possibilities and aspirations — never in order to obtain money, but to serve the collectivity. In exchange, each one will receive what he needs in order to live. There is no question of giving everybody the same thing, each one will receive what his true nature requires. Obviously this will be very difficult to determine and at the center of Auroville there will have to be a meeting of wise men...
(Mother smiles)
"... to decide upon the needs of each one's true nature. The workers will live in a village planned especially for them so they will find themselves in their own atmosphere. According to the work they have done, they will receive coupons with which they shall be able to get... etc. "
There's hardly ever, only once in a while, the word that I uttered! It's curious, isn't it? It gives me a perfect example of what I say and of how it is received in the brain.
It's useless.
Yes, one can very well feel that it's a human rendering.
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It's useless, isn't it? That's not it.
Yes, you didn't say it like that.
It's useless. I can't use it. That's how ideas are ruined.
Yes, they become flat.
(Mother laughs) All the life is gone! It's useless. It becomes flat, petty and dogmatic.
Dogmatic! It's absolutely unrecognizable! It's useless.
I spoke without intent, because I had just seen some things and it was there — it was a vision. It just so happened that she was there at that time. I said to her, "Do you want to try? I will speak and if you remember what I say, you'll write it down." She was very glad to do it and... No, what is a little annoying is that it never comes back, it's never the same thing - never. It's always either a different viewpoint or a different motive. So the angle is changed.
[passage omitted]
... What gets in the way for most people is mental activity — this body is really infinitely grateful that it's been liberated from the mental presence so as to be able to be ENTIRELY under the influence of this Consciousness, without all that accumulated hodgepodge of so-called knowledge that you have.... It's spontaneous, it's natural, it's not sophisticated, it's very simple and almost childish in its simplicity. And that is a great advantage (the disappearance of the mind). But at that pace, things can go very fast - you learn 100, 200 things AT THE SAME TIME, you know, you see everything at once. This morning it was particularly intense.
And if it is described as things are described using one word after another, it becomes like [name's] text on Auroville: flat, artificial, lifeless.
For the moment, human means are inadequate. What means will the superman use? I don't know. But human means are not
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adequate.
(silence)
[passage omitted]
That's what I'm afraid of, that people will make dogmas for the creation of Auroville.... And I didn't say any such thing to [name]! But that's what it became in her head! But even what is written, even if what I say is written in the "Bulletin", when it reaches their heads, it becomes like that.
I'm sure what is recorded there (Mother points to the tape recorder), if three people listen to it, each one will hear something different.... That's why I'm not really sure that it's useful to play those recordings. Each one is sure that he has heard it, but then he has understood something else altogether. And above all — above all - what I say is seen there (gesture upward), and then... (gesture showing it's heard at ground level), it becomes so stupid, so flat!
Anyway, you'll see with [senior Ashramite], but...
No, Sweet Mother, if you feel that way, there's no point in pushing it.
It's not a feeling, it's an experience! You know, I could wish for nothing better.... In fact I always have the impression, "Do the best that you can, and what happens will be for the best, and that's all." But there's such an awareness of precisely this uncertainty of the effect things will have and of this complexity... it becomes so mixed up and confused...
And all of life is like that. I'm beginning to see that CIRCUMSTANCES like that, it's beginning to... look like that, turn out like that: honest people seem to be rogues and rogues seem like... . I don't know what.
Sri Aurobindo was very, very conscious of this widespread confusion, and he didn't very much like that... (he absolutely didn't want any propaganda), but neither did he appreciate it very much when you explained things to people and tried to make them "understand," because he knew very well how useless it was. He very often said to me: above all, don't try (no propaganda in any way), don't try to make people understand; that which will have the most effect is the Consciousness at work
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in the world (universal gesture), because it produces in each one the utmost of which he is capable - the most that he can understand will be understood by the influence of the Pressure of the Consciousness. As soon as words are brought in, the whole mind makes its mess.
Certainly he [Sri Aurobindo] must have had experiences similar to those I have had; now I'm absolutely convinced of that. Because people who are full - but full — of an utter goodwill, who are under the constant Influence, who make the effort, they're... (gesture flat on the ground) from another world. So those who don't put any goodwill into it...
Music is good.
Oh, yes!
Because there are no words. Music is good. I had a vision like that, of an auditorium in Auroville with a large organ, and someone (whom I'm trying to prepare, who knows how to play the organ very well and whom I'm trying to prepare inwardly), who was playing (I SAW that, I saw it); playing the music of the higher Consciousness. And it was a place where all those who wanted to come to listen could come, and there were people who came from very far away, they came in and sat down there and listened, and then they went away. And this music was like a Consciousness coming down and putting Pressure on people to make itself understood. It was very beautiful - I hope it will be like that! Much better than words; as soon as you start to speak (gesture on the ground), that's not it any more. There you are.
There, my child, now it's time to stop.
AM X-86,90-91
(Regarding the Italian translation of The Adventure of Consciousness)
I have nothing to say. But you? Do you have something?
Page-103
Just two things: you know [name] has asked me to bring this to you: it's the Italian translation of my book on Sri Aurobindo.
Good.... But what's this? (Mother looks at the cover) What is it?
It's part of a painting, an Italian painting.... I believe even so that it's Christ, isn't it?... Wait a minute, I'll tell you; here is a note: "God created man. "
Oh! (laughing) And which one is God?
I don't know!
Have they put photos in?
Yes, Sweet Mother, they 're there.
(Mother looks at the photos, one of which is of her)
Me? I have nothing to do with it.
Even so, a little bit! They've put in Auroville... the...
Oh, but that too has no business being in there!
Yes, it has nothing to do with it, I agree. (A photo of the Samadhi, then another one that has "nothing to do with it".) Anyway it's for you.
I don't keep any books. Have they put "translated from the French" or "translated from the English"?
Translated from the French.
Well, that's all right. Because otherwise, if someone took it upon himself to retranslate it into French! (laughing) If you did that once, it would be very funny! Go from one country to another, three or four times, and then retranslate it in the last one!
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I suppose it goes to the Library, I don't know. Or else return it to him.
[passage omitted]
I told you about the miracle that occurred? You don't know about it?... They're going to build a big mill for grinding wheat in Auroville, but it's gigantic (to grind wheat for the whole of India), gigantic. Where the machinery will come from I don't know, that's also gigantic. And they decided to unload at Pondicherry because it's easier to go from Pondicherry to Auroville than it is to go from Madras to Auroville. Only, when the boat arrived and they saw the number (and size) of the crates, they got terribly frightened: it's not possible. And the woman, [name], who has the unloading barges here refused to unload it. I sent her a message saying I needed her and she ought to do it (because she claimed she wanted to serve me, so I took advantage of it!); I told her, "I need you, do it." She was obliged to do it. For two days everything went very well, but they had kept the biggest crate for the end - a six-ton crate, tremendous - and no one knew how to do it. It would have taken some enormous cranes like they have in Madras, but there aren't any here: they had only two poor little cranes which between them didn't WEIGH six tons! (Mother laughs) And they were the very cranes which would have to take the crate from the boat and load it onto the barge. There was no other way of doing it, only that. So they attached the crate to the two c ran e s and then they began to lift it. .. and then the cranes went like this (gesture of tipping over), and there were people down below - the people who look after the transshipping - and then everyone, including the captain of the boat, everyone there was terrified. They said, "This is it, it's finished, now comes the disaster. " The two cranes went like that... and then all of a sudden they straightened up again. Nobody ever found out how. They straightened up again and they transferred the crate and it was over.
It was so obviously a miracle (the captain was almost terrified, so was everyone). And then, those crates were supposed to go to someone here, [name] ("Auro food"), and the day before the unloading I had sent him a blessings packet, he had it with him. So he went to see the captain and he told him (showing the little packet), "It's this, you see, this is what straightened out the
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cranes."
A very simple man.
You know, it, was a STATEMENT: there was a crowd, no discussion was possible; the two cranes were bent over like that, they were expecting... and then they straightened up again! (Mother laughs)
The captain saw [an Ashramite] and said to him, "Could I please have one of those... (Mother laughs) little packets!" So [the Ashramite] came to see me. I gave a few packets — four packets - for him and his men.
That's the first time.... [the Ashramite] told me, "I've seen hundreds of miracles, but this one was so obvious, and of such startling dimensions (Mother laughs) that no one could deny it!
It's interesting. I should say that there really was a concentration of force, because they were faced with an impossibility (considered practically, it was an impossibility). So there was a concentration.
It's amusing.
And the exactness of the transmission (which greatly increases the power), I have to give it to that Consciousness. That Consciousness which made the power much more PRECISE in its action.... The consciousness of the superman.
It's interesting.
But it shouldn't be talked about. Right away it seems you are boasting, it's disgusting! — It can go in the Agenda, but...
If only men had some trust....
Oh!
It's tremendous what could be done... Yes, that's it....
AM X-102-103
Two days ago (not yesterday, the day before), this Consciousness said something to me, and then I said, "Fine"..., but it went on saying the same thing over and over again until I
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finally wrote it down! So here it is (Mother hands him a note). And it explained to me why it had used "we".
"We shall endeavor to make Auroville the cradle of the superman."
Oh!... That's important news! (Mothersmiles) And then I said, "Why 'we'?" and it said, "Because we're going to try to get the people who will be in Auroville to collaborate."
Once I had written it down, it left me in peace, but until I wrote it down, it kept coming back again and again.
And it's more and more active. It's active in people: when people come to see me, it starts working right away and... at times it is highly amusing! Really amusing. It says things and turns up corners.... some crannies are quite amusing. But I don't say anything! It's like this (gesture of inner exchange).
So, if you want to put it in the Agenda.... It shouldn't be used in the "Bulletin". No, no! It's only for the Agenda.
You don't want it spread around?
No! I think it's better not.
It will be misunderstood.
Oh, it's dangerous.
There would be a double danger: those who don't want to see it happen (governments and the like) would try to corner us, and then there are all those who would immediately claim to be supermen!... The two extremes.
AM X-114-117
Yesterday I saw a Frenchman who is involved with Auroville, who has had a lot of contact with the people who make that new "pop" music, (you know, this new "musical" movement which goes together with the hippies). He's the father of little [name], born in Auroville.
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Yes, I must see him on his birthday.
He came to see me and made me listen to that music. [The reference is to the "Rolling Stones ".]
What's it like?
It's curious... It's barbaric.
Barbaric.
It's barbaric, but my impression was "barbaric" from the new world.
(Mother laughs) I'll hear a bit of it on the 16th when I see him.
The people who compose this music have millions of fans. These people have a tremendous fortune - they have movies, radio, television, everything at their disposal, and they are fully in revolt.
Oh?
Yes, as I told you: the barbarians of the new world. The old world is swept aside. Truly, it's the beginning of something which is expressed in a very barbaric way but which is something. So this boy's idea is to try to reach those people, get them plugged into Auroville. Because obviously these people have millions and millions of followers — they have an enormous power (a power over the masses). And they have something, but barbaric.
It would interest me to hear some of it once, to find out... but I don't need to hear much of it.
That's what I told him.
I only need a few minutes of it.
That's it. He wanted you to listen to it for an hour!
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(Mother laughs heartily, silence)
I've often asked myself what is the true attitude to take with regard to all these people who come to see me....
You can be in meditation, (facetiously) You're getting a reputation as a sage!
And when I speak to them, it's very curious, there's something of a warrior in me, and there are people who stir up some reactions: I feel like striking out. Sometimes it's very fierce, I don't know why. It comes and it strikes. With others, on the contrary, I'm very quiet. Some people tell me: you 're hard!...
Has it always been like that? It's not since that new consciousness came, since this year?
Last year too.
Because I have noticed that there's something like that in this Consciousness: all of a sudden it comes like that, oh, it wants to strike!
Especially when I come in contact with mental pettiness.
(silence)
Are the people who make that music the same ones who take drugs?
Yes.
Then it must be in the vital.
Oh, it's very vital, without doubt! But they sense that the world is in revolt and that we're coming to a new world, and that all the old conventions have to be swept aside. There's no conformity of any kind. They're open to everything.
Open like this (horizontal gesture), not like this (vertical gesture).
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No, not like that, but there's a certain goodwill in spite of everything. They're the ones - or a group of the same kind, the "Beatles" - who went to see that Mahesh Rishi in the Himalayas.
And so?
The idea of this yogi was "transcendental meditation", and he had them come to stay with him for a month in the Himalayas. Obviously after fifteen days they were bored and they couldn't take it any more! And then the "Transcendent" is without much opening for the world!... If they were to be shown what Sri Aurobindo brought forth, — a yoga open to the world — it would get through to them.
The unfortunate thing is that all these people take their desires for inspirations. And then... I have this difficulty with Auroville too, that's why I go on telling them every time I get a chance (they all say they have come to Auroville in order to "be free"), so I answer them: one can only be free if one is united with the Supreme Lord; to be united with the Supreme Lord one must no longer have any desires!
Oh, it's obvious that all that (desires) was necessary, but... you can't stay there forever.
(silence)
AM X-127
There's a whole movement in Canada now. They've just asked me for a message for a Canadian group. (Mother looks for a note)
In Auroville too, I'm forever telling them two things (Mother makes a gesture of hammering): "For those who want to be free, there is only one freedom: to be united with the Supreme; and to unite with the Supreme there must no longer be any desires!" So they're like this (Mother sits with her mouth wide open). Very
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amusing!
Then I put the same thing here:
(the disciple reads)
"A new consciousness is at work upon the earth to prepare the coming of the superman. "Open yourselves to this new consciousness if you aspire to serve the Divine Work.
(Mother had used the word "collaborate", then she changed it to "serve" and made several other minor corrections.)
"To be able to enter into contact with this new consciousness, the essential condition is to no longer have any desires and to be absolutely sincere."
That's what has to be repeated to them (same gesture of hammering). I am pushed all the time, all the time to repeat it to them.
AM X-137-144
(Mother listens to the "pop" music introduced to her by [an Aurovilian ]. The recording of the conversation begins with the "music". Then Mother speaks.)
It's very amusing! (Mother laughs) It's the whole vital in revolt against the mind, but it's magnificent! They entirely reject the mind. It's interesting, very interesting!
You get the feeling that if they would just push a little bit farther (gesture of breaking through above), they would catch something.
[The Aurovilian:] Mother, some groups have, pushed much further. This group [the "Rolling Stones"] is the most vital of all the groups. But there are others who are more open, less harsh. They are really ready to find out about you, but they don't know it.
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It's obviously a complete rejection of all mental rules, and that's the first step that's needed to be able to go beyond. And there are about two or three minutes where, all of a sudden, hop! (gesture of breaking through), you can feel that it touches something which is above.
Is there something else?
[The Aurovilian:] Lots!
(laughing) Can you give me another?
("music")
(Mother laughs, very amused) It makes me think of a bunch of children released from all mental control. It's very amusing! It's all right.
[The Aurovilian:] I would like you to listen to something else, a different form. But from the same generation. Something softer.
Fine... but it's very amusing! Behind it, there's a mental form which is similar to the I-don't-care-ism of the everlasting Smile! It's curious!... You know, something that smiles at life and all of its forms, but as it is seen and felt by children.
("music" of a more sober kind)
They are more troubled!
[The Aurovilian:] Would you like one more?
I think that's enough! (Mother laughs)
[The Aurovilian:] There is one group which sings something rather humorous and at the end they say, "Oh Mother, tell me more, tell me more. " It's fantastic! Because it's such a pure inspiration, and they are really asking, "Oh, Mother, tell me more...."
(Mother laughs)
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And these are "commercial" things, I mean they are for the general public... Do you think it's time to contact them?
(Mother doesn't hear the question)
It's an open door. One has to go through the door and into the future (gesture of breaking through above), towards... what is not manifested yet.
[The Aurovilian:] Maybe they can be helped?
It opens many doors. All the habits, all the past civilization is closed in, as though walled in by mental rules; that music (gesture of exploding) gets rid of them! It gives the impression of a bunch of children shouting to get something - and the open door. You have to go through it, you have to go further — there are possibilities now which were not there before, and that (the people who made that music) is precisely all that which wants to open itself to be able to receive these possibilities. So some of those who are in front will have to go through first and receive what is on the other side.
There you are. It's good.
He would like to put them in touch with the Ashram...?
They are not all ready.
[The Aurovilian:] Mother, I don't want to ask them to come....
No.
[The Aurovilian:] ... But I want to tell them that something is happening here which has to do with what they don't have.
Yes. (laughing) They've broken down the walls to get to the other side! It's true.
[The Aurovilian:] But, Mother, it's the problem of this whole generation....
Yes.
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[The Aurovilian:] And I believe that maybe we can give them the information we have. At least show it to them, give them something to read.
Reading is still too mental!
[The Aurovilian:] But we can also, if you think it's possible, put together a small group, or maybe a single individual, or two or three, to go and see them
That's it.
[The Aurovilian:] And speak to them in their own language, but show them there's something else.
Yes, that's it.
[The Aurovilian:] Mother, I am - / was - deep into that "pop" world, and to come here, I just had to... decide to come. And everything I've managed to see or learn since I am here is a great joy and a confirmation of the aspiration I had before. But there are many like me, turning around and rebelling.
Yes.
[The Aurovilian:] And if they are told, "there is this", they're ready to change their action completely.
Good.
[The Aurovilian:] ... And to become very pure and very devout.
That's fine. Then you have to undertake this mission.
(Mother puts her hand on the Aurovilian's head) That's good.
[The Aurovilian:] I'll do everything I can.
(Mother addresses the disciple) Well, you know, I asked the
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Consciousness what was needed to be able to receive it without its being distorted, and then it answered me (Mother reads a note):
"One has to be able to stand in the light of the Supreme Consciousness without casting a shadow."
Without casting a shadow, yes.
That's what it answered.
[The Aurovilian:] You mean, to forget yourself completely?
To be entirely transparent.
But that's all the way up there! (Mother laughs) (to the disciple:) He's leaving for Bombay to do some good work.
[The Aurovilian:] I hope so.
It's very interesting (Mother points to her note): there was the experience of the Consciousness, the light of the Consciousness....
Good, here (Mother hands a blessings packet to the Aurovilian), this is to keep in your pocket, always. It's a means of communication, in the sense that if you hold it and you concentrate, I KNOW IT - and I answer. There you are.
(All the while [the Aurovilian's] wife and 40-day-old baby have remained discreetly in a corner. Mother looks at the baby.)
Oh, we mustn't wake her up!... Adorable! Look how pretty she is.
(The baby moves her fingers They leave)
(To the disciple:) You want some "patience"?
Yes, Sweet Mother!
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(Mother hands him a garland of flowers, then picks up where she left off)
They refuse the ordinary restraints absolutely, and there are some who take great pleasure in turning everything upside down, but one feels that from time to time there is something which (gesture of breaking through), "Oh, I would like... I would like something else," and that is exactly what will be ready to receive the new consciousness.
This boy is nice, he has a strong personality. It seems he met [the director of education] and he was captivated by her "ideas." And [the architect] was very worried. So I told him, "It doesn't matter!" That's why I encouraged him to go to Bombay, so he could free himself from that [director of education]. He was forever talking about Equals One... =1 [the magazine put out by the director of education]. They are mentally helpless.
Yes, there are many like that who are "captivated".... by nothing.
Yes. But it's an open door, truly.
AM X-152-153
[In the context of a discussion about the alarming situation in the world during the period of the aggressive policy of China toward India.
The background for this conversation was the visit two days earlier of a representative of the Government of India seeking advice.]
America is extremely interested in Auroville, Russia is extremely interested in Auroville. The Chinese... nothing, absolutely nothing, no response.
They are... I don't know how... One has the impression of something like stone. It doesn't respond.
(long silence)
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[There is an addendum to this conversation which gives Mother's responses to the Government representative. The twelfth point reads:]
Auroville, Mother says, is the only hope for preventing another world war. Tensions are rising and the situation is becoming very critical. Only the Idea of Auroville, if it can be made widespread, is capable of preventing a world war.
AM X-170-171
I received a letter from [the director of education] telling me what all these young people who have come to Auroville are doing (they have a place now: the =1 office is somewhere behind or in front of the library), they have an apartment and they are doing all sorts of things, including "improvised dance". So [the director of education] wrote me that (with a lot of praise for things, I might add), and then she told me, "But what is important is to know what Sri Aurobindo and you think about it?" (Mother smiles ironically) And then (laughing), this Consciousness made me answer by telling her, "You only have to see that it doesn't degenerate..." And it said (I don't remember now because I wasn't the one who wrote it): "See that it stays...", I don't remember the words any more.
But it was so ironic, my child, priceless! And I sent it to her.
And all the time, all the time it speaks, it answers. It impels me to write: "Answer this... Say that..." It has taken the place of the mind, you understand.
It's so very interesting.
AM X-215-217
The night before last, I spent more than three hours with Sri Aurobindo and I was showing him all that was about to come down for Auroville. It was quite interesting. There were games, there was art, there was even cooking! But all that was very symbolic. And I was explaining to him as though on a table, in front of a vast landscape. I was explaining to him the principle
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on which physical exercises and games were going to be organized. It was very clear, very precise, I was even giving a demonstration, and it was as though I was showing him on a smaller scale a miniature representation of what was going to be done. I was moving people and things (gesture, as though on a chess-board). But it was very interesting, and he was very interested: he was laying down the broad laws of organization (I do not know how to explain).
There was art and it was beautiful, it was good. And how to make the houses pleasant and pretty, upon what principle of construction. And then even the kitchen; it was so amusing! There were different ways of presenting the food; for instance, take fish, the different ways of preparing it, and each one came with his own invention.... This went on for three hours (three hours of the night, it is a lot). I woke up just at four (four o'clock, and I went to sleep at one: one to four makes three hours! I still know how to add!) Very interesting.
Yet conditions upon earth seem to be very far from all that...
No... it was right there, it did not seem to be foreign to earth. It was a harmony: a conscious harmony behind things; a conscious harmony behind the physical exercises and the games; a conscious harmony behind the decoration, the art; a conscious harmony behind the food....
I mean that all seems to be at the opposite pole of what is now upon earth.
Not...
No?
I saw [the director of education] today, it was her birthday, and so (smiling) she started telling me that all the latest scientific discoveries were "absolutely" marvellous, that they knew how thoughts were formed and went from one to another.... (Mother laughs) I couldn't stop myself from saying, "Yes, that's what the yogis already knew!"
Well yes, really!
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And she also told me that animal psychology can lead you to know the psychology of the superman.
Well.
There's something true to that... but anyway, it's...
Seen from below.
I was telling her that the whole organization of the arts and sports, even of food and all the rest, was ready in the subtle physical — ready to come down and be embodied — and I told her, "What is needed is just a handful of earth (gesture of cupping the hands), a handful of earth where one could grow the plant...
Isaid, "I'm telling you about it because we have to find a patch of earth in order to grow..." I don't know if she understood!
AM X-230
(Concerning a letter from Antonin Raymond, architect and friend of [the Ashram general secretary], who built Golconde, an Ashram guesthouse.)
Have you seen the letter from the Raymonds?... They have written a very nice letter. In this letter they wrote something I didn't know, which [the Ashram general secretary] never told me; they said that when [the Ashram general secretary] had put them in touch with us, it had completely changed their lives, the goal of their life and everything.
Raymond is a great architect. When the Raymonds came here (in 1937-38) and built Golconde, I asked Raymond for a plan for the first Auroville I had conceived (that was when Sri Aurobindo was still alive), and it was magnificent! He didn't leave it behind.
But it was an Auroville with Sri Aurobindo's house at the center (gesture as though on a hill). Sri Aurobindo was still alive, so we had put him at the center.
(silence)
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AM X-260
There was a person in America (a woman) whom I often used to see at night. I used to go there and talk to her, and people answered.... Some of those activities at night are strange: I feel like I enter into someone, because I speak and people answer me.... I don't know whom I enter, nor what they are. But there was one person that I used to see often: I saw her house, I saw the meetings (there were meetings), I saw... I didn't know who it was. Then one day we received a letter from a woman who said that she wanted to get a boat and to come on the boat with a group of people, for 1972. I answered her, then she sent her photo — and I saw she was the person whom I had seen so often, with whom I was in touch! And she's a woman who seems to have some authority over there (she seems to be a rich woman): she has some authority, she knows people in the government, she wrote to them. She already has a very important group, it seems like some very good work is being done in America. Very receptive and full of energy. I still remember that my conversations with her were very interesting. And the other day, her letter came (it's the second or third time she writes), together with her photo, so I recognized her. It's interesting, because it was... (at this moment, the door to Mother's room slams) there was a steady rapport: the same place, the same people, and I see them very often, it's not something "like that," by chance. She wrote to the government to tell them they should be interested particularly in Auroville and do something. And she seems to have some authority over there.
AM X-285-288
I wondered if there couldn't be a publishing house in Auroville, because Auroville is an international city and there could be an INTERNATIONAL publishing house. There would be books in all languages. It would be interesting.
Auroville is starting to be rather well known in America. There is a lady (I told you) who is thinking of coming here with
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a boat in 1972 — she is very interested in Auroville and she organizes meetings, she's in touch with the government. It seems to be going rather well over there. So there could be a publishing house in several languages.
What we should also have, which has such a tremendous power, is cinema.
Oh!
To have a studio.
Listen, [name] told me she saw your book as a movie.
Yes, that's quite possible.
It would be interesting.
Because you reach millions of people with cinema. And it has everything: — light, music, colour, expression — it has everything.
But it would be possible.
Only it would take an enormous amount of capital.
Yes.
But I'd really enjoy working on making a film. I find it such a complete means of expression: images, music, everything is there.
You know [an Italian artist/designer]?... He makes movies. Why couldn't you do that together?... He's going to come back.
I have a feeling it's an extraordinary medium to work in.
Yes.
A book touches some people, but it's still rather limited, whereas a film touches millions of people right away. So to
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make a beautiful film, a TRUE film.........
Oh, but with that book you could make a very good film! You could look into it when [the artist] comes back, he's used to it.
It doesn't matter, it could start in Italy, then go on to France, then... It goes everywhere.
Yes, that's an idea!
The power of a beautiful picture!... It penetrates so easily, you can convert so many people — open, in any case, open the doors.
Yes, yes.
(long silence)
And... (what's it called? I can't remember the word; you know, the movies you have at home?)...
Television.
Television.... But it would be better as a movie than on television.
Yes, television is very limited. And then the viewing audience for television is usually rather common. It reaches many people too, but it's limited.
I'm telling you this because [the education director's] idea is to have television in Auroville (they're looking into it). A receiving and transmitting center - not to depend on others but to have a television station in Auroville itself.
But television is very well suited for scientific and technical programs, documentaries, information - on that level it's very useful.
Yes, but not for literature.
Not for beautiful imagery.
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I don't know, I've never seen it.
It's just a little screen like that.
I used to like the movies a lot. I always thought something could be done with them.
Oh, yes! It's an extraordinary medium.
(silence)
AM X-302-303
Did I tell you there was a veterinarian in Italy who has found a cure for cancer?... He's discovered that goats, the species goat (nanny goats and bucks) never get cancer! They even went so far as to try to give them cancer and didn't succeed. Conclusion: there is something in their constitution which is unfavorable to cancer; and they've discovered something in the stomach (I don't know exactly what) and he made a serum of it. Being a veterinarian, he doesn't have the right to administer it [to people], but he has some friends who are doctors and they (some dozen doctors) gave it a try - extraordinary cure, infallible. But there's a differentiation: the nanny cures some cases and the buck others; it's not the same thing in the nanny and the buck, each cures different kinds of cancer (I don't know a thing about it). Anyway, he's somewhere in Italy, I don't know where, and I had someone ask him if he would come here and he has agreed. He is going to come: there is a whole group of young Italians who want to come to do Sri Aurobindo's yoga at the end of this year, and he'll probably come with them, or else he'll come with [Italian artist] if [the Italian artist] is willing to pay for his trip. And I'm planning to put him in touch with [an Ashram doctor], so they can see together, and if it works out, I will ask him to stay here. Because you know that [the doctor] now has a sort of dispensary in Auromodele (there's even a young French medical student who has come and is there too, and he's very happy). So they could open a "cancer clinic," it
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would be interesting! Because here, with [the doctor's] presence, there's no problem - in Auroville he can do what he likes. It would be wonderful!
He's going to come before the end of the year. And the other one, the healer, is going to come in September.... The other one, we'll see; if he wants to heal people here, that will be fine.
That would right away give an interesting orientation.... "Auroville, the city where one heals!" It would be good.
AM X-320,325,327
I saw [the director of education] yesterday. She told me what she wanted to do, her new method of education. It was rather amusing! It seems that in a box they have tiny models of as many earthly objects as it's possible to represent: men, animals, objects, houses, etc. All that is mixed up in a great big box and there's a sort of table, and then they put the big and small children all together there and give them a set time (I think): they have to make something on the table with the objects -absolutely free, they can make what they like. And it seems that from what they make, the choice of objects they make and their arrangement, one can read their character.... Then as an illustration she told me that they put one man there (she didn't tell me who it was), but it seems he is a sage, a sage who knows about yoga, and the result of his work was: a Red Indian taking aim to shoot another Indian; the second Red Indian taking aim to shoot another, and a third one taking aim to shoot yet another - four of them like that in a row. And then the last Red Indian (the fourth) was taking aim to shoot a lion, and the lion was rushing to kill a deer.... And that was his picture! And he said that it was a picture of life.
And on the basis of that they are sure they know his character! (Mother bursts into mocking laughter).... I found that enormously funny.
But the sage must have been making a good joke. He must have been pulling their leg and they didn't realize it. They took it seriously.... It seems they asked him what it was and he said, "It's life." We see things like that, but it's the other way around:
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that is, it begins with the lion running after the deer, then the Red Indian comes to stop the lion and shoots at it, and then... That amused me very much!
She's convinced that it's the way to discover someone's character.
But all that seems very superficial to me.
Absolutely!
Quite so. But naturally everything they do is superficial. They're not even aware that depths exist. Or if you mention it to them, they deny it.
No, but do those who are setting this up, who are supposed to know there is something deeper, think that with a game like that they're going to reach something deep?
I don't believe they think that. I believe they regard themselves as having reached the pinnacle of mental development.
It's the education of children from the time they're still very small. And they leave them free in a place and they do what they like - absolutely free, with everything they need at their disposal. And so about those who spend their time fighting they say they have an aggressive character! (Mother laughs) Others remain all by themselves, others get together — from all that they decide what their character is. So she wants to do that in Auroville. I told her, "How are you going to keep them from hurting themselves or having serious accidents?" She replied they would have to be put somewhere where they could fall down without hurting themselves - that seems a little poor to me! But in any case that's the idea. And she wants to make this Kindergarten beside the sea. I said (laughing): "How are you going to keep them from drowning?" She answered, "Oh, we'll put up a barrier in the sea so they can't go too far out (she's already chosen the spot, near [an Ashramite's] hut, they even want to take over one of the places [the Ashramite] bought: they'll put them there). I said, "There are sharks in the sea." So they're counting on their barrier to keep the sharks out — it will have to be strong!... These people seem to me to live in their imaginations.
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And then they're so convinced they know what's what that there's nothing to say. Occasionally I make a joke, just to see -oh, brr!...
What strikes me in all that is that it all seems very old.
(Mother laughs)
There's no handle on the future in it.
No, nothing. Nothing.
And then, last but not least, to look after the children, [an Aurovilian] is going to go live there — [the Aurovilian]! [The Aurovilian] who taught this new way of describing people's character in Switzerland is the one who brought it here, and he's... passionately interested in it. I simply told [the director of education], I hope there will be no accidents. Then she said, "Oh, later on, when we have money, we'll make the Kindergarten at Aurornodele, and then we'll make it with all the necessary precautions." I thought maybe it would be better to wait... But to get the money they have to do something (it's like that: first you have to start doing something, and later on they give you money to do it) .... I'm not saying anything, you know (Mother crosses her fingers over her mouth). I've appointed her "responsible for the direction of education in Auroville" (Mother laughs heartily). Moreover, she told me she wants to have a bank account in the name of "Auroeducation" - you know why? Because those young Americans who came here on a visit (do you know about that?), about a dozen of them whom I saw... quite ordinary people who asked me "What is responsibility?"... things like that...
Yes, you told me about them.
Well, all those young people went to see [the director of education], and she showed them what she wants to do - [the director of education] told me they were ENTHUSIASTIC, that they had said, "At last we've found what we were looking for!" And then one of them (they're twenty, twenty-two year old girls) said to her, "Give me the number of your bank account so I can send you my contribution." [The director of education] had
Page-126
never dared hope for such a thing; she said, "Can you imagine, they're going to send me money!"... I said, "Oh, that's very nice."
They all seem to me to be children.
Yes.
Anyway we're going to see!
I don't want to interfere, I want to see. From time to time I send out a little note for everybody... but I don't interfere.
Yes, what I'm watching with curiosity is YOUR way of acting with Auroville.
Me!
Or not acting, I don't know!
Does it shock you?
No, no! But I'm trying to understand.
Oh, you don't understand?...
Perhaps you want to guide them to the end of their foolishness, or perhaps their foolishness is necessary at the present level?!
But, my child, their foolishness is the height of intelligence in the world!... Don't you know what the world is like, have you forgotten?
From time to time I see it.
(Mother laughs) From time to time I get news through [an Ashramite], he tells me about the conditions outside — it's dreadful!... Like, for example, UNESCO - UNESCO is the "leading association," you know, but they're still at the level of "tolerance"!
Have you forgotten what it's like?
Not completely!
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(Mother laughs) Not completely.
From time to time in fact I have reactions. I realize that people don't understand me.... Several times I've tried to say certain things as I felt or saw them, and I saw what a dreadful scandal I caused....
(Mother laughs heartily)
As if it were an attempt on their life!
Oh, yes!... And you know, if someone asks (this was repeated to me by some truthful people), if someone asks [the director of education], she says, "The Bulletin is old hat," "Sri Aurobindo's teaching is out of date." And they have moved ahead. And they're so convinced!... And she has chosen [the librarian] as god in her new creation, so you understand...
(silence )
What I do now is... (Mother puts her fingers to her lips)... because that Force, that Consciousness is there (gesture of pressing) and it's at work, and I see it working, and it makes use of all that in a marvellous way to... to put people (gesture of pushing her nose) in the presence of themselves.
There's a place (Promesse and Auro-orchard, that whole area which is concerned with agriculture), there are French, Swiss, Italians, (even Indians!) who argue with one another... all the time. From every side they complain to me asking for my support. So it's extremely instructive. Me, I'm here (Mother puts her fingers to her lips), and once in a while I let a drop fall. The [names], for example, used to regularly send me a complaint, once or twice a week, against the people living out there (sometimes these, sometimes those, they went through them all one after the other). The first time, I didn't say anything, but after some time (laughing) I simply said (I don't remember the words, but rather the sense) that to be in Auroville the true consciousness is to look at one's own faults before complaining about the faults of others, and to correct oneself first before insisting that others correct themselves (I put it in a more... literary way), I sent it to him. Since then, silence, total silence:
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I don't exist any more - I am not giving my support to all their little quarrels, so I don't exist any more.
But that's a way of kneading dough.... They will either have to change or go away - without telling them anything at all, there's no need to say anything to them; just the pressure of the Consciousness. Either they have to change or they'll be obliged to go away.
It's not a method particular to this person (Mother points to herself): it's the method of this Consciousness.
I see very well the way it is working: it puts a pressure so that everything in someone's nature that resists comes to the surface and manifests, and so what is ridiculous or bad in this thing becomes obvious, and it either has to go away or... I've noticed that. That's the way it is proceeding.
But precisely because of that pressure, you realize that people are always ten times more stupid than one had thought - they aren't aware of it (but that's normal, generally one is very unconscious of one's own stupidity), but even when you thought you were aware of what they were, you see you didn't come anywhere near touching what they were!
(silence)
I said nothing to [the director of education], except for one thing: I hope that none of the children will drown. That's all. Nothing else. So she made a face.... I think she had never thought of that, she never thought of that possibility.
(long silence)
[passage omitted]
... our human consciousness is VERY SMALL, my child! Even when you're identified with the general Consciousness, you feel yo u r se lf so small, so microscopic in comparison to the true Consciousness which contains everything. We can't contain everything ! Even, even when we are identified with this Consciousness, we become like that (gesture indicating a blank at the level of the forehead) , absolutely silent and immobile, with nothing but an IMMENSE, luminous Vibration, infinite and with infinite power too, but.... (same gesture at the forehead) no
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translation whatsoever, nothing resembling a thought. And then, if we want to intervene between That and circumstances, we're OBLIGED to make a mistake, we can't do otherwise! So one can only remain like that (gesture of immobility turned upwards). And that's why I am silent. You said, " I don't understand your way of acting with Auroville," it 's nothing more "th a n that. It's because our thought limits, runs counter to - even the vastest consciousness, you understand, is only a TERRESTRIAL consciousness, and it is very small, very small from the standpoint of consequences, the sequence of circumstance (Mother draws a trajectory) , of how th is is going to bring that - we don't see. So you have to be like this (gesture turned towards above), and simply let th at Consciousness act..
[passage omitted]
[Name] told me there was a piece of land up there by the sea where you'd like to have a hut.
Oh, you know, it's a way of speaking!
But no! As soon as she told me, I answered, "Well, we'll take care of it." We're going to try to get it. Happily it's not too close to their future Kindergarten.
There's a small piece of dune or hill there which is very lovely.
AM X-331-332
There's a Druid (laughing), a Druid who is still living in Brittany, who has written a letter to [an Ashramite] to say he had heard of Auroville from friends of hers and he wants to come. He says, "I'm poor and I can bring nothing" (he has a wife, they intend to come together), and he writes he will bring a book, a book by one of his friends who has had a world "financial and economic vision"; he's going to bring that (he says it's a revelation) so that it can be used in Auroville. So, in response, I want to tell him: "Here is the basis on which
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Auroville is established..."
(Mother hands the note)
Money is not meant to make money...
I had written it in English a long time ago; I sent it to America: it caused an upheaval! The majority of people were indignant that you could think such a thing!
Money is meant to prepare the earth to manifest the new creation.
So we're going to see the Druid!... That makes the fourth person: we have a healer of cancer who is going to come; we have a just plain healer who is going to come; we have... (Mother tries to recall) oh, yes! a Persian inventor who has invented some "extraordinary" things (he sent us a paper) for education (especially for the education of children), he's going to come in September.
All that's going to be very amusing.
Yes! At least we'il have some variety.
But the Druid said he didn't have a cent, so we're going to send him to [the architect], who perhaps could arrange something.
He has studied all the religions, and... (laughing) he stopped at Druidism.
He's Breton.
Yes, I surmise.
And he regards the book by his friend as a very precious gift (I don't know if it's been published or not), a sort of revolution. So I prefer to send him this note beforehand, because I don't know what's in this book, but if it's a similar idea, I want him to know we had it first!
(long silence)
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AM X-333-336
Some things are beginning to come for Auroville (Mother indicates several written notes). There are many, many others, but above all there is the question of internal finance: 1 would like there not to be any money within Auroville (we will see how to arrange things), that money be kept only for relations with the outside. But that's not what I wrote, I wrote something else (Mother hands the first note). This I've told you several times.
Auroville wants to be
the cradle of
the superman.
And then this one:
Auroville,
the free international city.
No army,
no police....
Bravo!
... They will be replaced
by a battalion of
guards
consisting of
athletes and gymnasts.
Oh, all that is wonderful!
That's for right now. It has to be done right away.
Yes, no army, no police. Yes, yes!
And then (Mother points to a third note), this is for entry, because there's a port in Auroville, so of course entry is free, but conditional because we don't have boundaries, we don't have walls, we spill over into India, so I can't impose my law on
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the whole of India, but it will be replaced by a control at the port: we will allow in only what can be consumed in Auroville — not to serve as an illicit entry point for a flood of duty-free merchandise.
(The disciple reads)
No customs, but import permit is granted only for merchandise intended for consumption in the city.
That's all.
Yes, to avoid illicit traffic with India.
Yes, if people were honest, it would be all right, but they're not.
No police and no army.
Yes, that's good!
And so that gives physical education a profound objective: people capable of stopping fires, saving people from drowning, etc. And not very many would be needed: if there were 500 people like that, it would be enough for the whole city, walking around in small groups like that.
And Dr. [name] also has some ideas for replacing prisons (because we don't have prisons and you can't dump all the dishonest people on the rest of India! that wouldn't be right) Prisons and old-age "homes" would have to be replaced by something else.... That is being looked into. They've found something. It's going to be very interesting!
And one last thing: a place where all the children could be kept when the parents don't want to look after their children or take poor care of them. And all that with the impossibility of accidents or running away - but no prisons and no hospitals, not those things.
But it's being worked out.
(silence)
North of Pondicherry, along the sea coast, there are places
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where they have never been able to do anything (they are constantly flooded) but there is a way to use them, and so I'm trying to get the government's permission to look after all that. If we can get hold of it, then we'll have a free port, a free airport, an aerodrome (but more inland), and then agriculture with the new methods of irrigation using sea water, and of course desalination of the sea water — but they have found something to convert sea water into drinking water (Mother picks up a brochure beside her). It's French I think, an economical method and it's very interesting. It's in process and if we wait a few more years, they'll have perfected it.
(long silence)
I spent a good part of the night (almost the entire night until three a.m.) with Sri Aurobindo, and not only did he show and explain things to me, but he himself WAS
what he was showing me: he was preparing himself for the new creation. And last
night he told me, he showed me what such and such a thing would be like, what
the body would be like. I remember that when I woke up, he was lying on a bed, I
was kneeling beside the bed, looking at him, and then at the same time that he
was that new body, he was explaining to me what the body of the superman (the
supramental being) would be like and it was so vivid that even when I woke up, it
remained, still see it. But the details... (what shall I say?) the memory is not
so precise as to enable me to explain (I don't know how to say it). I still have
the vision, its colour was.. . it didn't throw out rays of light, not that,
but.·.. and it wasn't phosphorescent like an object, but it was of a special
luminosity and it was of that light. . . a bit like Auroville's flower (but it
wasn't like that, it seemed completely natural). He was showing me his body, he
was lying down, he was showing me his body; he said: "This is what it's like."
The form was almost the same with... I still have the memory here (gesture in
the atmosphere), but I don't know how to explain it.. .. And recently I had been
thinking, "It's curious, we don't have any idea what it will be like," and I
said to myself, "There's no one who can tell me," because that Consciousness
which came acts through the consciousness but not very much through the vision.
And then this came last night. For a long, long time I was with Sri Aurobindo, a
long time, for hours.
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It entered into the consciousness, it will surface again one day. But I've kept the memory of the last thing: I was seeing myself, there were two of me (and maybe I wasn't exactly the way I am now, but that didn't interest me: I was looking at him, lying there and he was explaining to me), and it was... it was the same thing as a phosphorescent body, but it wasn't phosphorescent, it was... if I'm not mistaken, it was a little like the colour of that sari (Mother points to [an Ashramite's] sari), something like that.
Orange?
No.... It's pink which has a golden glow, you understand? So you see them both together, it's like this (blended gesture).
(long silence)
AM X-354-3S5
I have written something for Auroville...
Earth needs a place where men can live away from all national rivalries, social conventions, self-contradictory moralities and contending religions; a place where human beings, freed from all slavery of the past, can devote themselves wholly to the discovery and practice of the Divine Consciousness that is seeking to manifest itself.
Auroville wants to be this place and offers itself to all who aspire to live the Truth of tomorrow.
Now, things have got in the habit of coming like that (Mother knocks on her arm) and then they go on bothering me until I write them down! As soon as I write it, it's over.
And the President [of India] went out there [to Auroville] this afternoon, and just as he was leaving he said, "It is a work of God." He felt something.
We'll see. Maybe we're going to get somewhere — "maybe": surely.
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AM X-359,362-363
Have you seen this?
[Mother gives her note of 18 September]
"Auroville is the ideal place for those who want to know the joy and liberation of not having personal possession any more."
That's the latest thing that came. "Personal possession" is in the singular; I mean the sense of personal possession.
(silence )
[passage omitted]
[This new Consciousness] is very useful: sometimes when I don't know where I've put a piece of paper, it tells me, "It's there." It's really very interesting! And most of the time, it is that which makes me write things, especially for Auroville.
[passage omitted]
But [this new Consciousness] feels people, because I told you what the President [of India] said as he was leaving?
Yes, at Auroville, "It is a work of God. "
Yes.
[The new Consciousness] is very interesting! I'm going to see how it behaves with our healer.... With the Persian, the inventor who was here (he's leaving today), it was very good. It wanted me to give him "blessings", it was very active. With some other people, nothing - it ignores them. It's very curious.
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AM X-456-457
And Auroville is a great Adventure.
I see how it's taking shape, it's truly interesting, truly interesting.
Did you meet that Persian?
No, I didn't see him.
He's not an intellectual.
What does he want to do?
He's an inventor, a man of action — I could say "inventor-adventurer," but I don't: he's still here! (Mother laughs) But it's really interesting.
But what does he want to do here?
Oh, he wants to "help" in the creation of Auroville. He already has a society: Auroville International, and he's going to start to work - and he is going around. He's a man who knows four or five languages and he has the mind of an inventor; it seems that his invention - some of the engineers here have seen it and say it is remarkable, consequently.... But I can't judge it. It's for those machines (Motherpoints to the tape recorder), it's a modification of recording and reproducing machines. I don't know, but the others said it was remarkable. He likes to organize things, but he's... it's exactly that... it's just that he likes adventure, it's in his temperament (basically, inventions are adventures, and he is like that). And so he has already set up a society called "Auroville International", which has members in Europe and its headquarters in the United States.... everything you can think of. I am looking and I am very amused! In appearance he is very surrendered and devoted, but... For the moment I don't have any proof that it's anything but a "necessary appearance." But he's nice, he's really a man of good will... but I see him with a feather in his cap!
So we'll see.
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Did he have any reaction upon reading of this "Great Sense"? [Mother had given him the text]
Oh, he reacted, he "knows how to do" things, my child! He said, "It's very beautiful" - in an utterly convinced tone! But... I don't know, I didn't see enough of him afterwards to see if it changed his outlook. I believe it made him withdraw into himself a little, I noticed he reacted inwardly. And what I noticed is that it made him slightly cautious towards me!... Maybe it made him feel that I could look right through him! (Mother laughs)
But he falls into the category of those who really aren't middle class as far as money goes, that is, they don't have much sense of personal property. And then I caught myself (that's how I caught myself!).... I myself made an effort to reach that point of view: that money is a force which should circulate and should not be treated as personal property; and in the consciousness everything is all right, but the body has its old habit, and it observed that that man is in that state: for him money is a force which should circulate, should go where it has to go, not something which belongs to this person or that one - so it (the body) first had the reaction: "Oh, be careful, he's an adventurer." (Mother laughs) I caught myself and I said (laughing): "You see, you preach, and then when people do as you say...!" I found that very amusing. But I saw how full of enthusiasm he is for the idea of Auroville and it seems to be quite sincere, he even said that it was what he had been searching for for a long time. So, he doesn't shilly-shally.... He used to be a minister in Persia; but in Persia they had a revolution and he's not there now, he's in America; but he's a man who is used to earning money.
There I really caught myself, I was very amused. I thought, "Let's see, you've come across a man who understands you!" (Mother laughs) It's amusing, you know! '
That Auroville is going to be a very interesting experiment.
At first sight Auroville is not made up of people burdened with morals!
Oh, no!... Oh, we have a lot of little Aurovilians, a lot, but you know, there are some among them who are absolutely remarkable from the standpoint of consciousness; they're as big
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as a boot, my child, they're conscious! It's wonderful. I held a little Tamil baby in my arms a few days ago, he was as big as this, like a doll (delightfully formed, exquisite little feet), and then this child, I wanted to make an experiment: I put him on my knees and then I put the Force - if you had seen the transformation in his expression! His eyes aren't even open yet and a sort of blissful peace came over him. I thought, "Let's see if he is asleep or conscious." So I touched his foot - he jumped, which means he wasn't sleeping at all. Wonderful! A marvellous expression... I know another one who isn't yet two, but my child, he has a way of seeing and acting like a child of five! Then even so, something is happening. And the latest experience is a woman (she came with the "caravan" [a group of people who came overland to Auroville from France]), who had her first child in France: she suffered for 35 hours to have it. She gave birth here (day before yesterday I think): one hour without suffering. And an hour later, when it was over, she was standing up! So she said, "That's Mother, because I don't know how to do that!"
Something is happening.
AM X-479
... I saw that for the majority of people who Have children almost without wanting to, "like that," for them it's a sort of... (of course there are many women who want to have children but without even knowing what it means), but for the IMMENSE majority of those who have been educated, that is, whose heads have been stuffed with .a ll the defects one shouldn't have, the qualities one should... , everything they've repressed in their being, all the bad, pernicious instincts come out [in their child]. I remembered (I observed and I saw), and I remembered something I had read a very, very long time ago (I think it was by Renan). He had written somewhere to beware of parents who were good and very respectable because.. . (laughing) childbirth is a "purge"! And he also said : observe carefully the children of wicked people because they are often a reaction! And then after that, after my experience, when 1 saw, I said to myself, "But that man was right!" It's a way for people to purge themselves. They
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throw out of themselves everything they don't want. There are some children here... terrible! And that's it, you ask yourself, 'How can it be? Their parents are such good people." And it's very interesting because it gives the KEY to what should be done - by showing you what you should not do, it gives you the key to what you should do.
In that case, that "prenatal education" of which [the director of education] speaks isn't a fallacy after all. It's something that may be true.
The children, the little children who are only a few months old (as I said, those who were born in Auroville) are remarkable -they're remarkable. I thought it was just one case, but all those whom I have seen so far, all: a concentration of consciousness.
This little Tamil baby was a marvel.
AM X-5U-512
(Mother looks through some old mail)
It's from [the director of education]. She wants to see me, I guess?
Yes: "I would really like to see you and look at certain things through you."
(Mother laughs a lot) ... She is always trying to convince me that what she does is perfect, so... It goes "in the corner."
(Mother points to the place where letters to be filed are piling up)
I said that they were building a school at Auromodele.
Who will look after the school?
There is a Frenchwoman who was a schoolteacher (they told me she was nice, I haven't seen her), and then there's an Indian
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woman (whom I have seen) who wants to teach in Auroville, and she's fine, at least her mental position is good. So together they are going to begin (laughing): there are five children!
Some interesting people have come to Auroville, really people who are looking for something.... So I'm letting them simmer up there to see what comes out of it!
(silence)
You know the former prince of Kashmir? [Name]? He has set up a kind of "committee for Sri Aurobindo's centenary". He's very active and they want to set up... an "institute" or I don't know what to "study the works" of Sri Aurobindo and "put them into practice" from the governmental and international viewpoint. At first he thought of founding it in Delhi - I said, "That's all right." But there was a big movement for it to be done here in Auroville.... There are two things they want to do in Auroville, this institute and then, in 1972, they want to launch a "communications" satellite from India, and they have more or less decided that they'll launch the satellite from Auroville and call it "Sri Aurobindo".... And then, I've already spoken to you about a boat that will be leaving America in 1972 too: "Sri Aurobindo's Boat"? They're trying to do something....
As for me, I try not to get too mixed up in it because... as soon as it touches the Manifestation, it becomes like what you felt up there (in Madras) [see first part of this conversation p. 511], and then it's so ridiculous that as soon as it enters my consciousness, it begins to tremble, so I prefer to remain somewhat withdrawn.
AM X-517-518
Yesterday I received a note from [name] (very polite, moreover) asking me why marriage (which was forbidden in the Ashram) is now authorized since people are getting married and having children.... It must be gossip, or else he's seen those women in Auroville who are pregnant. But I sent him my explanation; I told him that if it were true that marriage is now authorized and that children are being born here, I would simply
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say, "It's because the Divine willed it so." (It's a way of telling him that a very ordinary consciousness is asking the question.) And then when I wrote, I put "the Divine" because I didn't know what else to put.... Afterwards I told him how things were, that it's not at all like that, but that in Auroville people are having children; I even mentioned in the reply that an Auroville maternity clinic had been created for all those who wanted their child to be a citizen of the world! (laughing) And there are many!
AM X-525-536
Do you know [an Italian designer], have you seen him? He's nice.
He is nice. But in fact I have something to say about this. Yesterday I had a visit from both [the designer] and [an Italian engineer], and [the designer] explained to me a sort of inspiration he had about Auroville. I found it very beautiful, very good, and important. And so I said: "You must absolutely speak directly to Mother yourself. " So when could you see [the designer]?
Will I understand him? Because the trouble is that people don't know how to speak, they talk too fast and I can't follow. Tell me what he wants to tell me!
I'll strip the blossoms off it.
It doesn't matter.
He says since several years the energies in Auroville have been scattered: they're egoistic, each one wants to make his own little hut, his own little trip, or at best hopes to create a super city which will be nothing but an improvement on all the existing cities in the world. In this Auroville an axis, a centre is lacking. It lacks... a unification of consciousness around a centre, a pivot. So he was saying that in former times people built pyramids, they built cathedrals, and around this symbolic
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structure consciousnesses could unite, they could merge...
(Mother nods her head)
... be uplifted and purified. Well, we should make an axis, a centre in Auroville, a symbolic temple of the new world we want to create, and all consciousnesses might come together in the construction of that pyramid or temple of the new world. And at the same time, it will help bring down that which is to be expressed there.
. It's very good, that was the original idea: there was the centre, and the city was organized around it. Now they're doing just the opposite! They want to build the city first and then put in the centre afterwards....
And that's why it isn't working, he says. He says we have to start with that, and if we don't start with that, then we won't accomplish anything.
That was my initial impression. But how to make that clear to [the architect]? I don't know. Because it's [the architect] who changed it, he wanted to start with Auromodele, that is, with trials and experiments.
So what is happening is that each of the people there is busy with his own trip and his own hut, and there isn't any "cement" - the Thing that would bind them together and raise them above themselves and their petty stories.
Theoretically he's completely right.
Oh, yes! And it's odd, because when he told me about it, I could almost see it, I saw it. He's a fellow who could pull it off.
Yes, he has the power. But why doesn't he meet [the architect]?
He told me: "Must I speak to [the architect] about it?" Because he says it's a problem: if I say something to [the
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architect] about it, he is going to withdraw or . So I said no, don't say anything to [the architect]; tell Mother and Mother will say what has to be done.
I'm going to see [the architect] tomorrow, I can tell him. [The designer] is also an architect, isn't he?
You are the only one who has any authority over [the architect].
Yes... no, if I tell him, "Do it", he won't say no, but he won't do it! He has to be convinced.... All that I can do is tell him I'm aware of the idea, that I fully approve of it and I'm asking him to see [the designer] and come to an understanding.
But I think [the designer] has a power of conviction in him.
Yes, in any case, when he was speaking to me, I felt the inspiration and the "thing" which was ready to come.
It is ready to come! I've known it for a long time! It's there (gesture above), waiting.
Well, he's in touch with that.
Oh, yes.
As he was speaking you could feel he had touched the true thing. While the rest of them are only thinking of how to bring in millions and make propaganda — they're going about it completely the wrong way....
(silence)
[passage omitted]
I'm afraid they don't even have the land. That's the difficulty. Because the centre of the city has been fixed and there's still a large part of this centre which belongs, I think, to the government, and they're in the process of negotiating to get it.
(silence)
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[The architect's] idea is to have an island in the centre surrounded by water, running water which will be used for the city's whole water supply; and when it has gone through the city, it will be routed to a mill and will be used to irrigate all the environing agriculture. So, this centre is like an islet, and in this centre there is what we had at first called the Matri Mandir — which I always see as a very big, absolutely empty room, you see, and it gets light from above; and that is arranged in such a way that the light which comes from above is focused on a place where there would be... that which we want to put as the centre of the city. First we had thought of Sri Aurobindo's symbol, but we can put anything we like. Like that, with a ray of light which always strikes it — which turns and turns, you understand, with the sun. If that is well done, it will be very good. And then below, so that people can sit down and meditate or simply rest, but NOTHING nothing but something comfortable underneath so they can s it down without getting tired, probably with some kind of pillars that would a ct as back rests at the same time. Something like that. And that is what I always SEE. And a rather nigh chamber so the sun can enter as a RAY, according to the hour of the day, and strike the centre which will be there.
If this is done, it will be very good.
And so, for the rest I don't care, they can do what they like. At first they had thought of making a room for me, but I will never go there so it's not worth the trouble, it's quite useless. And to look after this islet, it was understood that there would be a small house for [the Ashram artist], who would like to be there simply as the guardian.... So [the architect] had arranged a whole system of bridges to link it to the other bank. And the other bank would be composed entirely of gardens all around. These gardens... we had thought of twelve gardens (of dividing the distance by twelve), of making twelve gardens, each concentrated on one thing: a particular state of consciousness and the flowers that represent it. And then the twelfth garden would be in the water, around (not around, but beside) the Mandir and with the Banyan tree which is there. That's what is at the centre of the city. And there, there would be a repetition of the twelve gardens which surround it with the flowers similarly arranged.... There are two Americans here now, a husband and wife, and the man has studied over there (in America) for more than a year, I think, to learn how to make
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gardens, and he has come with this knowledge. And I told him to begin right away to make the plans for the inner garden: they're working on it.
And then the reply is always the same: but we don't have any money!
But, Sweet Mother, what I believe and what [the designer] has also touched on, is that if those... let us say 20 or 50 Aurovilians sincerely unite their hearts in the construction of this pyramid or temple of the new world, it WILL ATTRACT money, millions.
It should.
They will come. It's not "looking for millions" that's needed, it's first to unite the consciousnesses around something.
Yes.
That's the key to the millions.
You'll explain to [the designer] everything I said.... That way we would have something which is really very good.
But obviously what is needed... There are material difficulties: for the islet, water is needed - naturally, otherwise it's not an islet! As far as water goes, it will have to be transformed [i.e. by desalination] - there isn't enough underground water.
There's not enough water?
There's water, but just enough for one or two houses; in short there isn't enough water to create a permanent stream. They would have to convert sea water. In Israel they have found a way to do it economically (we even have brochures about it), but you understand, "economical" for a city, not for an individual! And so we have to get water in order to make this islet, that's the difficulty.
But before building the islet, we can already start building the "temple" itself... You have to begin by picking up a stone.
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Yes, we could do that.
That's what is important, that people pick up the first stone with their hands and then set it down, and that they unite in so doing — because they will never come together through their little huts and their little stories.
Yes, that would be a lot better.
Oh yes, of course!
Obviously, logically, or rather psychologically, it's an error to build the outside first and the centre afterwards.
Oh, yes!
But how to make him understand that?...
Since we want to do "something else", the least we can do is have trust in something else.
Yes, I'm going to speak to [the architect] about it tomorrow and I'm going to ask him to see [the designer]. I think that to a certain extent [the designer] can bring in the money, if he's interested.
Good.
That is, to begin building even before there's an islet.
(silence)
For the outside of this sort of temple, [the architect] had been thinking of making a big lotus. But then the interior, the play of light, I don't know if it will be possible with the form of a lotus.
If they could both collaborate... If they could both get together and if one of them could always be here, one of the two: sometimes one, sometimes the other, that one of the two is always here - with a single plan that they would make, it would go much faster, a hundred times faster.
And it would seize people's hearts.
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Yes.
That idea of a ray of sunlight... when I look, right away that's what I see. And a ray of sunlight which would enter at all hours of the day - it would be arranged in such a way that it comes all the time (gesture following the movement of the sun). And then there would be something, a symbol, which would be at once upright so that it can be seen from all sides, and flat so as to receive in full light - what?... And may it not become a religion, for the love of heaven!
Yes.
(silence)
You know that I'm in touch with some Ethiopians (I think it is the country which has remained the most Christian on earth). And there's a boy who is secretary to the embassy in Delhi (the Ethiopian Embassy), who is utterly taken, and so... (laughing) his birthday was two days ago and he came with a gift.... Something in wood, in ebony, as big as this; on one side was my picture and on the other side there was a picture of Sri Aurobindo, and in the middle there was a cross... in silver. And on the cross, at the top, where the junction two arms meet, there was on one side my symbol and on the other side Sri Aurobindo's symbol... What's in his head?!
It's frightful!
And naturally as soon as I saw him he put that on my lap.... It was this big.
As soon as I saw it, there immediately came (gesture of massive descent) like that, like an answer to the will to transform Christianity. And it was so powerful, there was such a powerful vibration in it that I had the feeling it was IN THE PROCESS....
The cross is the symbol of transformation, you see: Matter (transversal gesture) penetrated by the Spirit, and the junction = the transformation. And a tremendous Force came, like this, so that this cross might truly become... the flower of transformation.
But I didn't say anything to him! And he himself doesn't know, that is, he didn't think of it - he didn't think, he did it
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instinctively.
He had written to the Emperor to tell him about Auroville, and there was an answer. Did I show it to you?... (Mother looks through some papers) It's all the way down, right at the bottom....
"I have written to my Emperor Haile Selassie I, about Auroville International Township aim, and Ethiopia to be the second country to support this idea. He has written me a good letter. In his letter he has appreciated and admired your work very much. I wish you to bless him for peace of mind, good health to live long — peace for his people. "
It doesn't commit you to anything! At least it shows goodwill.
(Mother puts the papers near her back under a pile of files)
I keep all this with me because it keeps the contact.
(silence )
There is not the shadow of a doubt that the Force is working. And there is such a great... (how to say it?) a highly active will: NO RELIGION, no religion, no religious forms. And right away, immediately people.. . So that's why I've left people very free. That was why I did not insist on the construction of, the centre first, because it would be that old cathedral again, that old temple, all that old stuff right away (Mother makes a gesture of planting in the earth), and then everything gets organized around that: religion - we DON'T WANT religion.*
Yes, but we "make it into" something besides religion.
But they don't make it anything! It's in the people! They are so small, they need a religion, or at least they believe in it.
* Thus after Mother's passing the "owners" of Auroville declared, that they constituted a "religious institution thus compounding spiritual fraud with financial double-dealing. Not a single voice was raised in the Sri Aurobindo Ashram when those people dared to declare in front of the Indian courts that Sri Aurobindo's was a "religious" teaching.
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They need it, I see that, I've received more letters which I'm answering.... (Mother looks in vain through some other papers near her) Every day they come in. And Sri Aurobindo wrote some wonderful things about it.... Very recently (yesterday or the day before) I answered a question about an Aphorism of Sri Aurobindo in which he says that atheism was NECESSARY because of the religions and all their misdeeds. They asked me a question and I answered that too.
Men are still very small.
But an interesting sign: from northern Europe, from Sweden and Norway and Denmark, some priests are writing to me; one of them is the head of a Church; another is the head of a convent. They are writing to ask and say that they want to collaborate in order to get out of... It's very strong up there. One or two of them sent me their photos, asking me to help them. And they're doing a work, they're doing a work for Auroville over there. That means that...
But even our children have such stupid reactions! There's a girl here who wrote to me because I had mentioned to her that the Consciousness had descended on earth, had been concentrated on the earth in order to help men prepare for the transformation; she said, "How is it that men have been left without help for such a long time?" That's enough to make you burst into tears! They have had their whole education here and they can still ask questions like that!... I had to hold myself back from telling her: you're really a fool!
(silence)
Who would be capable of finding a way to realize that?... Because there is no lack of sunshine here (obviously there are some days when there isn't any, but anyway there are so many days when there is); so that from every side, from any angle, the ray falls [on the symbol].... So that it's arranged like that. It's a question of geometry.
* 241: Atheism is a necessary protest against the wickedness of the Churches and the narrowness of creeds. God uses it as a stone to smash these soiled card-houses. 242: How much hatred and stupidity men succeed in packing up decorously and labelling "Religion"! Recently Mother had commented thus on these two texts: "So long as religions exist, atheism will be indispensable to counterbalance them. Both must disappear to make way for a sincere and disinterested search for Truth and a total consecration to the object of this search."
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You can speak to [the designer] because if he had an idea...
When he spoke, I felt he could catch that.
Yes. And that's what's needed: something, a symbol — we'll find out what is needed, we'll see — obviously like an altar, but... what? A symbol which simultaneously receives light directly from above and laterally.
And then, no other windows, you understand? All the rest in a sort of half-light, and that like a light.... It would be good, it can be very good. I would like someone who can feel that. I don't know at all if [the architect] is capable of feeling it, but [the designer] is capable.
And if it were well done, it would already be very interesting for people. It would give a concrete form to something.... People would start to say that it is a religion of the sun! (laughter) Oh, you know, I'm used to EVERY sort of foolishness!
(silence)
The idea of [the architect] and those around him is to have industries which are capable of making money for Auroville, then...
They're mistaken, they're wrong.
That means that instead of its being done quickly, it will take centuries.
And then, it starts off from old ideas, the old principles.
Yes.
One has to begin an another basis.
It's due to fear of religions.
We can very well do it not as a religion but as a symbol of the new world.
Yes. We need somebody who understands it — maybe [the designer] will understand?
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Yes, certainly! And he would have the capacity to convince people, I think.
(silence)
Yes, I'll see [the designer]. It would be better if he comes on a day when you're there because I'm afraid I may not hear well... It bothers them a lot to have to talk so loudly. So, shall we say Saturday? And I'm going to speak to [the architect] tomorrow, that is, I'm going to tell him to see [the designer], who has some excellent ideas, so that he comes to an understanding with him.
You know, it's very simple; we're going to try to make [the architect] understand and create a collaboration. [The architect] won't say no to me - but he won't do anything! You understand, it's like that! But at least, if he can do it, if they can agree, if it's agreed with [the architect], then it's very good, there are no difficulties. But if he can't, then [the designer] will have to be here when [the architect] isn't, and then we'll have to do it!... You understand, for me it's like that! (Mother laughs) Because [the architect] has enough work to do (he has a tremendous task). We're not taking any work away from him, it's rather that if he refuses to do it, we'll do it, that's all.
I'm going to see if they can agree.
Now, for me things are no longer exclusive, not at all. I see very well the possibility of using the most contradictory elements AT THE SAME TIME... with a little skill, that's all. It's not exclusive, I don't say, "Oh, no, not that!" No, no, no: everything, everything all...together. That's what I want: to succeed in creating a place where opposites can unite.
That...
Unless that can be done... (gesture of turning around in a circle) it goes on and on and on.
It's good. Yes, I understand: the thing is to build the centre, even if we can't make an islet.
Perhaps [the designer] will be able to convince [the architect]. I'm going to speak to him tomorrow, to start off the new year.
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